Episode 31: Sober as F***
There’s a paradoxical effect of drinking—the depressant qualities of booze and how it makes us feel the next day. I mean, physically. Some people can party like it’s 1999 and wake up the next day and smash their hardest routes or ski Black Diamonds—most don’t.
What role does excessive boozing in a community of athletes play? And let’s be really clear—this isn’t just the outdoor industry and trade show happy hours. It’s not about climbing culture or the river or ski or mountain biking community, or even the outdoor community at large.
America has a drinking problem, and Ari’s story isn’t unique. It prompts us to ask the question of why we’re drinking in the first place—is it coping or conviviality?
For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoor, Vibram, and presented by Patagonia.
Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.
Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
(KATHY KARLO): Have you ever seen someone who needs help, but hasn’t asked for it yet? Yeah, that’s me. Maybe you can relate. I’m ok with asking for the small things. You know—little favors here and there. Like last night: I was at a wine shop in Denver and an employee asked me if I needed help with anything. I then proceeded to ask him, “What red pairs well with ‘my dog died last week’?”—and I think I made him a little uncomfortable.
Anyway, you wouldn’t know this but I’ve actually spent hours editing out Shooter sounds from audio, and I can’t even begin to tell you how many times I’ve made her wait outside the van for recording purposes. She was my best friend for eleven years, and we’ve been on the road for the last three. Trying to navigate this world on top of loss is kinda hard when you feel split open, but having and losing her has also helped shape the way I see the world. Things hurt more, van life definitely got a lot more boring, and a little bit more lonely. But life is also more beautiful and tender than ever before. I guess it’s just…different.
Anyway, I’m here with my dear friend Andrea in Colorado and That Night, she offered to drive us to the ER. Initially, I’d said no—because I hate doing the thing where you’re an inconvenience to somebody else. But sometimes asking for help also means that you’re helping yourself. My point here is that asking for help should be pretty simple, but it’s often not because of fear and shame.
That fear of overstepping a friendship. Fear of rejection. Fear of being too needy, or imposing. We see people being celebrated for what they’ve accomplished all on their own, and not necessarily the times that they needed help with something.
But I think most of all, it’s the fear of showing people that we struggle. News flash—we’re all just humans who don’t always have it together. Whether you’re twenty-five or thirty-five or self-made or woke—everybody needs help. Nobody makes it to the top alone, and experiencing needs and asking for help is a part of being emotionally strong—and not the opposite. Asking for what you need isn’t a burden or a sign of weakness; it’s a sign of humanness.
So—fellow humans, pod listeners. I am running with this life lesson and asking you for a favor: Will you leave the podcast a written review on iTunes? A brief review helps so much in terms of showing brands that this work is appreciated, as I continue to try and make For the Love of Climbing my full-time.
In the meantime, thanks for all the support these last few weeks. Things haven’t felt easy, but also—if it hurts, that can be a pretty good indicator that something really mattered and you gave it your all. And sometimes, that’s the best we’ve got.
- This episode discusses unhealthy alcohol use and alcohol dependence. Excessive alcohol use is the fourth leading preventable cause of death in the U.S. As the COVID-19 pandemic surges, we understand that more and more people have turned to alcohol as a means to cope with unprecedented times and stress.
If you’re struggling with alcohol use disorder, or know someone who is, learn more about the causes, signs, and treatment. Visit fortheloveofclimbing.com for resources at the end of the transcript. Here’s the show.
- This podcast is presented by Patagonia. Not bound by convention, Patagonia’s in business to save our home planet.
- This podcast is sponsored by deuter, one of the leading backpack brands that will help you hit the trails with confidence and comfort, but most importantly–your snacks.
deuter has a history of first ascents and alpine roots. Their head of product development even climbed Everest once, in jeans (hashtag not fake news.) deuter is known for fit, comfort, and ventilation. Founded in 1898, deuter believes in good fitting backpacks, so you can focus on way cooler things like puppies, pocket bacon, and gettin’ sendy, whether at the crag or in the alpine.
(FEMALE VOICE): Today we’re going to talk about “allez”. “Allez” means “come on!” in a way, or to encourage. Ok! We are done with the simple and normal uses of “allez”, now let’s cut to the chase:
(KATHY KARLO): Allez Outdoor Personal Care products are made by climbers for those who love the outdoors. Their rich and repairing ingredients for their skincare collection are inspired by desert landscapes, and their simple and recyclable packaging makes them eco-sustainable. Allez commits to protecting the open spaces that we love by partnering with the Access Fund and 1% for the Planet. That’s Allez Outdoor: “A-L-L-E-Z”). Allez Outdoor—made by climbers, for those who love the outdoors.
- This podcast gets support from Gnarly Nutrition, one of the leading protein supplements that tastes “whey” better than they need to, because they use quality natural ingredients. So, whether you’re a working mom who runs circles around your kids on weekends or an unprofessional climber trying to send that 5.13 in the gym, Gnarly Nutrition has all of your recovery needs.
The only question you need to ask yourself is: Are you a sucker for anything that tastes like chocolate ice cream? (Yeah, me neither.) Gnarly Nutrition is designed to enhance your progress—and taste like a milkshake, without all the crap.
(ARI SCHNEIDER): I think that I’ve always been torn between what I want and what makes me happy, and then—maybe expectations for me. And I think that’s a classic story for a lot of people—is, “Oh, they were pushed by societal expectations and ended up not being happy.” And I think I watched some friends go through that and mentors looking back on their lives and saying, “Don’t let that happen to you.” But then, I just got dragged down that.
Especially going through college. I mean, I’m super privileged to be raised in a family where going to college was just kind of an expectation. And I don’t know if I regret going because I think I grew a lot—but, at the same time, college wasn’t a super healthy place for me. And I think I was too young and I didn’t really know what I was getting into.
(KK): I mean, does anybody? And these days, isn’t everyone sort of an expert with the virtue of hindsight? So, sure—in retrospect, if Ari didn’t run with the pack and go off to college, maybe his deep dive into alcohol wouldn’t have been so deep. Maybe it wouldn’t have happened at all. We don’t know this because we’re not wizards with the power to predict alternate futures or realities—we only have this one.
And in this reality, Ari toed the line—even though he felt different. He was accepted into Tufts where he studied political science and took courses heavy in writing and critical thinking. And even though he loved learning, Ari found himself split between two different worlds—and those drifts only grew deeper.
(AS): Well, I was surrounded by a lotta people that weren’t like me. As a little kid, I’d wanna go exploring in the woods and scrambling on boulders and I liked being outside and I liked to travel. And I always kinda felt like I wanted to do something different than the logical path for a lot of my peers. Which they were studying engineering or computer science, and a lot of these lucrative fields. And a lot of my friends are super passionate about that, but I wasn’t—and I was just kind of along for the ride and following them.
And so, when I say that it wasn’t healthy—yeah, I think my mental health was suffering. But at the time when I was younger, I didn’t really recognize that there were resources on campus for me to go to therapy and talk about my issues. I think all I really knew about was alcohol. And—
(laughs)
—that was a great way, at the time, to suppress a lot of my emotional feelings. And when I say “great”, I mean—it felt great but, in hindsight, it led to a lotta stupid decisions.
(KK): You’re listening to For the Love of Climbing Podcast. This is not a climbing podcast. Well, sorta. This is a funny, sad, and somewhat uncomfortable podcast about choosing vulnerability and talking openly about our pain. This podcast is presented by Patagonia. Here’s the show.
(AS): My actual last drink was at the Free Solo premiere. I had a bunch of nips in my pocket and I was just pounding nips in the back—I was pretty drunk for the first time I watched Free Solo. But I watched it again with my mom and I was like, “Man I missed so much stuff!” Like, it was crazy. So, that was my last drink.
(KK): Not gonna lie, but as a person who doesn’t personally drink that often—I did have to google “nips” and the 2021 Conference on Neural Information Processing Systems starts on December 6th. Thought you should know, and shout out to all you AI and machine-learning nerds out there.
Also, we wanna take a moment to acknowledge that people shouldn’t be defined by their illness or disease—and addiction is a disease. We all have a choice when we communicate and can work harder to use compassionate language that helps others understand substance use disorder, instead of perpetuating the negative stigma around substance use.
Words matter—a lot. And the language that we choose can frame alcohol and other substance use disorders as a health issue, rather than something shameful. The words “abuse” and “abuser” are deeply associated with violence, and it paints an overall negative picture before ever really getting to know someone’s story.
Certain words can be stigmatizing, and it’s up to us to un-learn the language of addiction and re-shape the landscape that we’ve been working with. We’re all learning together, but it’s gonna take a lot more un-learning in order for positive and long-lasting change to take place. Ultimately, we just wanna get rid of barriers that exist to hold people back from reaching out for help.
We also want to note that in this episode, Ari’s very clear about excessive use of alcohol and alcohol dependency.
(AS): My name is Ari Schneider. I am a climber, an alpinist, coach—I coach a climbing team—and I’m a writer. I grew up in Vermont. I went to college in Boston.
(KK): See? This is exactly what we would sound like if we were your standard, run-of-the-mill podcast. We would say things like: “Ari Schneider is an American journalist known for his articles about outdoor sports, adventure, and politics. Schneider attended high school in Vermont where he trained to be a competitive freestyle skier and in college, he switched his athletic focus from skiing to—ok. You get it.
Anyway, my point here is that a lot of things can look really good on paper, but rarely does it encapsulate the whole picture. And that checks out. We are messy, emotionally complex souls with equally messy layers that go beyond standard name, rank, serial number, accomplishment, and so on.
If you look up Ari on Wikipedia, you’ll learn about his education, his German-American dual citizenship. But you won’t find the ‘other stuff’. You know, the real real. Like, stuff about his college years in terms of his drinking, or his rescue dog, Breezy—or his love life (aka Ari’s Tinder profile).
(AS): I’ve never seen anybody I know on Tinder. Like—
(KK): That’s amazing!
(AS): —I feel like climbers aren’t on Tinder!
(KK): You know!
(laughs)
(AS): —which is kinda why I go on Tinder.
(KK): Like a lot of people, Ari started climbing when he was just a babe. You know, fun-size. And most kids who started climbing at the ankle-biting age are basically in the Olympics now, but Ari went in sort of a different direction. He didn’t even like it at first. That all eventually changed after college.
(AS): I was totally scared of it—really didn’t like it that much, but I liked the idea of climbing. So, I kept kinda going back to the gym for birthday parties and summer camps and whatnot. Ended up getting into competitive skiing for a while, and that was kinda my main focus up until I graduated high school. So, I went to a ski academy in Vermont and the academics there were pretty much one-on-one with my teachers, but a lot of it was just teaching myself while I traveled for ski competitions.
But then, when I got to college, I didn’t even know how to take an exam. But I think college was kinda the start of my confusion for what I wanted outta life. But I think a lotta people have their story about like, “Oh, I went on this one climbing trip when I was sixteen and it changed my life—and from that moment forward, I was a climber.”
And that wasn’t really the case for me because I had been kinda in and out of it throughout my childhood, and I think it wasn’t till college that I was in love with the sport and then started identifying as a climber. And the same thing goes for writing—I’ve always loved writing. And when I was in pre-school and kindergarten, I was already writing stories about mountain climbing, which was pretty hilarious.
My mom dug up these old folders from when I was six years old—stories that I had drawn out, pictures of people climbing—and writing stories about people climbing Mount Everest. And I think, one—the climber pulled the top of the mountain off and it was a volcano and then he died in some hot lava.
(KK): Yeah, ok. That’s a little grim for a six-year-old.
After Ari left competitive skiing, he needed a sport to fill that void. And that’s how he fell back in love with climbing. But college was so more than just sports this time around.
Ari ended up studying poly sci, which was great for his writing, and he got to research things going on in the apparent world. Ari also started developing a little relationship with booze, but like most harmful relationships—it started out innocently enough.
(AS): I think throughout college, it was just this pattern where I was in the social circles of “Party all the time. We’re gonna go out. We’re gonna drink a ton.” And I lived with two rugby players—and they drank like rugby players, and I would try to keep up. And I’m not tryna’ imply that they were a bad influence on me at all. But maybe I just drank a lot, threw up, and then, went to bed. And sometimes I drank a lot and then, ended up having issues with my temper.
And there’s a lotta pent-up depression and anger and confusion that would all come out when I was drunk. I think that’s a pattern for a lotta people that drink too much—because you lose control of yourself. And it’s also—it’s a depressant. So, even though you think that you’re kinda cloaking any depressing feelings you’re having throughout the day—it doesn’t actually work.
But it set myself up for a lifestyle for the year following college that wasn’t healthy and where I no longer had the structure of school and the support of my friendships to, you know, kinda catch me every time I fell.
(KK): It’s pretty common for most people to unwind from a long, stressful day with the occasional drink—and there’s nothing wrong with it. American culture celebrates alcohol as a social lubricant in all sorts of scenarios—hard times, funerals and birthdays, disc golf. Tandem bike riding. Pretty much anything that you can think of, you can probably do with a marg in the other hand.
But the belief that it helps lift your mood isn’t accurate. Drinking feels good—we know that. Alcohol functions to slow down the central nervous system. That’s why we feel so relaxed when we do it. But it also puts a temporary wedge between us and life’s stressors. And drinking used as a way to cope with stress can lead to overconsumption. Alcohol overuse and dependency don’t always, but often can arise from using it as a coping mechanism.
Alcohol became integrated into Ari’s coping toolbox. Those years set the foundation for what was to come next, when Ari would graduate college and head west. He tried a career in politics—really, he tried a whole smattering of careers, and his smorgasbord of potential job things eventually brought him back to the east coast.
(AS): Went up to Seattle, kinda looked for some jobs there—didn’t find anything. Ended up moving to California—took an outdoor education job and it didn’t end up working out. I wasn’t happy there. Decided to move back to Boston and I had minored in entrepreneurship and kinda wanted to explore that field a little bit as I was testing the waters, figuring out what the hell I wanna do with my life.
So, yeah. I kinda got involved in the entrepreneurial community in Boston and I was trying to raise some money and get some start-ups going. And that was very stressful. And at the same time, a girlfriend and I had broken up and I was in this very high-stress community—this start-up community, this venture community, where everybody’s drinking all the time.
Like, if you have a one p.m. event for entrepreneurship in Boston, there’s gonna be a ton of alcohol. And there’s a period when I was working in this office building that had just like, free alcohol all the time. And so, you get into this habit, and especially when you’re conditioned to think that, “Oh, I’m stressed. Alcohol is gonna reduce my stress.” Where it’s one p.m. and it’s ok to start drinking a lot.
And you get more and more used to it and—especially like me. I was really into whiskey. I wasn’t into beer. So, I was drinking a lot of hard alcohol. And there was definitely a point when I was living in Boston where I was drunk by noon every day. And I knew it was a problem, internally.
You go to sleep, you wake up the next morning. Maybe you’re sober again and then, noon comes around and you’re drinking again. And it’s just this pattern. Especially when you’re depressed—and I just was.
(KK): Ari was depressed. And he was drinking, a lot. Friends recognized that this was a problem, and when they tried to confront him, he got mean. Like, really mean.
(AS): You know, it’s like the classic intervention in a movie where you show up and all your friends are like, “You’re drinking too much.” And, all of a sudden, you get defensive and you think that they don’t trust you and they’re trying to attack you—and that’s how I felt.
And that’s how I lost friends and people walked out of my life. And I’ve burned bridges that I regret burning. That’s something that I accept now and I don’t blame people for wanting to not be my friend during that time.
Thinking back on what happened, I think it hurt me the most because I know it’s not me. I have a lot of new friends now that I didn’t have back then and they don’t know. They don’t know me from before I didn’t drink, and I’m a totally different person.
I don’t even recognize myself. I think back to the mean things that I was saying to my friends that were just trying to look out for me and catch me while I was falling—and I couldn’t even imagine that. My friends were just trying to be supportive and I wasn’t even capable of being supportive to myself.
And once I started losing friends, I realized alcohol had control over me in a way that I couldn’t manage. And you’d wake up in the morning and noon rolls around and you’re just like, “The natural thing to do right now is pour a drink.” And I kept telling myself, “Oh, today maybe I’ll just have one drink.” But then, once you have that one—you can’t stop. At least, I couldn’t.
And again, I think a lot of people can drink a lot and have a lot of fun and be responsible with it—and that’s awesome and I’m super jealous. But that’s something I’ve never been able to do—I don’t know how to be responsible with it.
And I wish someday, I could go back to it and know how to be responsible. And that’s something I’ve gone to therapy and talked about this a lot and it’s like:—am I ever gonna allow that to be a part of my life now—in the future, as I grow?
(KK): We cannot emphasize enough how much we love a man who openly talks about going to therapy.
Ari makes some big life changes when he learns the cost of his choices after we come back.
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- Even though we say it in different ways, our message is the same: Climbing is our home.
(FEMALE VOICE): Community is rock solid.
(NON-GENDERED VOICE): People I like, feel connected to.
(FEMALE VOICE): The support and love.
(MALE VOICE): Human connection—that’s what we’re all striving for.
(FEMALE VOICE): That’s what climbing is to me—it’s magic.
(KK): Whether we do it to find connection within ourselves, with each other, with the land, or for the food (ok, it’s kind of always about the food)—climbing shapes us as individuals and a collective. These are the voices that make up a community; the ones that call us back home.
(FEMALE VOICE): What has climbing taught you?
(FEMALE VOICE): Uhh—
(MALE VOICE): Climbing’s taught me—
(FEMALE VOICE): Climbing has taught me—
(MALE VOICE): —taught me to be patient, ‘cause you know, great things take time.
(FEMALE VOICE): I wake up, and I think about climbing—
(MALE VOICE): What’s the real reason that you climb?
(FEMALE VOICE): —I go to sleep thinking about climbing.
(FEMALE VOICE): The crag food.
(FEMALE VOICE): —all of the food.
Each climber’s voice is a point of contact into the broader community. Connect with more stories and check out Patagonia’s climbing apparel that’s built to move and built to last at Patagonia.com/climbing.
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Because climbing is more than a sport—it’s history, disciplines, technical gear and community—Vibram aims to tell the world of climbing from their side of things—no, literally, like, from the other side of the Atlantic.
(AS): I think the climbing community drinks a lot. And a huge pattern was—I’d go climbing on Saturday morning and then, I’d wanna go really fast and do whatever route I was gonna do so I could get back to Boston to go drink that night. And then, I wouldn’t climb on Sunday. And I love the sport, but I was prioritizing going out. I was prioritizing going to bars and drinking a lot and trashing my body because I think that was a crutch.
And I think the biggest moment was—one of my close friends did this trip to Patagonia. And it sounded awesome. Like, he was attempting this unclimbed tower, it was way out there. Killer approach and it just sounded like this amazing adventure. And this is a guy that I’ve traveled all over North America with climbing and he’s my favorite adventure climbing partner.
And he called me up and he was telling me about this Patagonia adventure, and I’m just sitting on my couch drinking whiskey—I’ve been drunk all day. And I’m just slurring my words on the phone and all I could think is, “This is so stupid. Why am I here, when my friend’s out there crushing it in the mountains attempting this amazing climb? And I’m such a loser.”
And that’s just not what I wanted to be. So, I decided I need to go back to that—go back to the mountains and figure out what my next step was gonna be. And then I impulse adopted a dog—
(laughs)
—on the internet.
(KK): As someone who had a dog, lost a dog, loves dogs—I know as well as all of you that no dog, no single person or thing is gonna be the answer to all of life’s problems. But damn, dog therapy is a thing. Ready for a fresh start, Ari made a commitment—to himself, and to his tiny new companion. He packed up and took Breezy to the mountains to rediscover all of his favorite places—and to heal.
(AS): So, I realized that I need to get out of here. And it was a good time because the start-up that I was working on was failing. And so, I was able to close up that company. And, yeah. I didn’t even really feel like I had a ton of strong friendships in Boston anymore because, you know, a lot of my friends were sick of me. So, I was serious—I adopted a dog.
(laughs)
And I’ve always loved dogs and I’ve always wanted to adopt a dog. And the timing never felt right ’cause everyone’s like, “Oh, it’s such a big responsibility!” Like, “You’re not ready for it.” And I realized—I was like, I just wanna do this. I need a friend right now.
So, I adopted Breezy who’s a fifteen-pound terrier. She was a stray in Houston, Texas and she was picked up by a rescue organization in Texas. And since there are so many dogs up for adoption down there, they look for adopters in the Northeast. So, I snagged her and she is my best friend.
But after I had her for a month, I realized she’s a super adventurous little dog and it was almost perfect. Like, she was starting her life over again and she was starting this new life with me, and I needed a reset. So, I got in my car and I drove out to Utah and just met up with all my climbing partners that were out there and started camping full-time and was picking up freelance writing—‘cause I knew that was the direction that I wanted to try going in next.
(KK): And this wasn’t a quick fix, by any means. But it was still a place to start.
(AS): But it wasn’t like, all of a sudden, my life’s better ‘cause I came out west. And I was still drinking a lot and having trouble managing my emotions when I was drunk because I was still really upset about having lost friends in the east.
I was still really upset about feeling like I had no direction in my life. And so, I was just climbing and drinking and camping and writing. And I guess that was the start of the process for me quitting alcohol. And that process took—
(sighs)
—maybe like six to eight months from when I really started trying to when I had my last drink. The first few months were really hard ‘cause I was still learning how to interact in spaces with alcohol with people who were drinking while I wasn’t.
(KK): What was it that made you feel like you wanted to put your story into words?
(AS): Um, a lot of people ask me that. And I published this book while I was going through this. So, I was very well aware that I could like give this up, I could start drinking again and then, everything I wrote for the conclusion of the book won’t make sense anymore!
And part of it was for me to commit. And I was just journaling, really, about everything I was going through. There was a lot of emotion while I was trying to become sober and trying to make amends with people I’ve hurt.
I drank a lot. To the point where it was a problem. And I don’t think everybody who drinks a lot has a problem. And by the textbook, there’s kind of two different ways that alcoholism can go. And there’s alcohol dependency where if you stop, then you go through withdrawals and it’s a very serious addiction. And then, there’s alcohol abuse where you’re using alcohol in an unhealthy way and it’s affecting your life in a negative way.
And I do believe there’s overlap there because alcohol’s so addictive. Even if you’re not going through serious withdrawals, it’s very hard to quit because of the chemical and also—societal pressure, peer pressure, your friends are drinking. Whatever.
But when I was drinking a lot throughout college, I was just making poor decisions and I wasn’t a good friend to people. And that was kinda the start of a disastrous—
(laughs)
—portion of my life I guess.
(KK): In Ari’s book, Shaded by Stone, he quotes Zarathustra: “I stand before my highest mountain and my longest wandering: therefore I must descend deeper than I have ever descended.” Nietzsche called Thus Spoke Zarathustra, “A book for all and for none.”
Ari wrote Shaded by Stone for himself, and not for anyone else, and it was the culmination of four years worth of intrapersonal thought. The final chapter entitled “Alone” dives into his time when he climbed a first ascent in the desert. During that time, Ari focused on creating that route without any outside influence. All that considered, it felt appropriate to dedicate the book to None.
Writing can be one of the most cathartic practices. Even if you never plan on publishing a book, there’s a huge benefit to the emotional release. There’s something to be said about enjoying negative emotions through mediums like writing and art. Catharsis includes the Greek word ‘Catharos’ in it, and it means “to cleanse”.
Cathartic writing is definitely cheaper than traditional therapy—but we also strongly advocate going to therapy if you have the financial means to access it. Sure, there’s the whole journey of development and growth and self-love—but also, who doesn’t wanna talk to smart people about their personal lives?
(AS): Meanwhile, I continued writing through this saga of trying out all these different jobs. I was writing casually, and then, in November 2017 I published my first book which was a guidebook for Backcountry Skiing in the Chic-Choc Mountains in Quebec. And that was really just a project I did because I was super depressed, on the couch for like six days. I didn’t leave the couch. I was at my parents’ house. And I was a total mess.
But I just sat down and I’d had this idea to write this book for a while—to write this guidebook. It’s the first English guidebook for the region. And, yeah—I sat down. I wrote that and I remember my mom saying to me afterwards—she’s like, “I’ve never seen you so dedicated to finish a project and just sit down and write a book in six days.”
And that was kinda the start of it. I ended up doing some freelance writing through Upwork. Like, just picking up whatever gigs I could get to try to get better at this style of writing—kinda like, journalistic style of writing. And yeah, started writing down more and more of my stories and compiled a couple books.
(KK): Just a couple books—
(laughs)
—no big deal.
(KK): Question: Does the outdoor industry have…a drinking problem? Yes, culturally we associate alcohol with celebration and it’s not uncommon to revel after a sweet send with some good whiskey. Climbing produces endorphins and other positive hormone releases, and drinking does that, too.
But then, there’s that paradoxical effect of drinking—the depressant qualities of booze and how it makes us feel the next day. I mean, physically. Some people can party like it’s 1999 and wake up the next day and smash their hardest routes or ski Black Diamonds—most people don’t.
What role does excessive boozing in a community of athletes play? And let’s be really clear—this isn’t just the outdoor industry and trade show happy hours. It’s not about climbing culture or the river or ski or mountain biking community, or even the outdoor community at large. America has a drinking problem, and the outdoor industry and all of the above can perpetuate that problem.
Stacy Bare, National Director of Programs at The Phoenix, said, “Is it the industry’s responsibility to make sure that I have a solid foundation? No. But it is the industry’s responsibility to open its ears and hearts to the diverse backgrounds and many paths of life. Sobriety and recovery are part of our community. And we need to be more open and receptive to that community.”
Maybe the end of 2021 will bring us to an inflection point where we see more people who are “sober curious”, as well as more emphasis on mental health.
Boozing is ok. It’s not not ok; it’s everybody’s personal choice and we all understand and respect that. But Ari’s story isn’t unique, and it might be worth asking yourself why we’re drinking in the first place—is it coping or conviviality?
(AS): And then, I ended up with a book and I love formatting books. And so, I put the thing together and was like, “Ok. This is my story—as much of a story as I have.” Yeah. So, it’s been a process. And right now, I’m really happy being sober. I’m really happy without having alcohol in my life.
(KK): With a widely noted substantial increase in mental health concerns and substance use disorders since the start of COVID-19, we’re advocating for more self-check-ins and alternate coping skills including: reaching out to loved ones, physical activity, breathing technique, and therapy.
Even if you’re feeling isolated or experiencing increased stress, anxiety, or depression, there are resources widely available. Many alcohol recovery programs offer in-patient as well as online options. Visit fortheloveofclimbing.com for additional resources at the end of the transcript.
People suffering from alcoholism are up to 120 times more likely to consider suicide than those who aren’t dependent on alcohol. Visit suicidepreventionlifeline.org or call 800-273-8255 to speak with someone today. Help is available. Reach out.
(KK): Even though I still have no idea what I’m doing—things are happening. And if you’d like to help out and support us, check out patreon.com where you can sponsor us for as little as one cup of bodega coffee. It really helps keep this podcast going, and for the record—we love bodega coffee. Special shout out to Peter Darmi because he makes this thing sound good.
- You’re listening to For the Love of Climbing Podcast. A huge thank you to deuter, one of the leading backpack brands that will help you hit the trails with confidence and comfort. And a big thank you to Gnarly Nutrition for supporting this podcast and the messages that we share. Gnarly Nutrition supports a community of vulnerability and equality—and tastes like a milkshake, without all the crap. A big shout out to Allez Outdoor for supporting the Access Fund and 1% for the Planet. Allez Outdoor Personal Care products are made by climbers for those who love the outdoors. And thanks to Patagonia. Not bound by convention, Patagonia is in business to save our home planet.
Support companies who support this podcast—we couldn’t do it without them. If you liked what you heard, you can leave a review on iTunes or give us a like—like all good things, you can find us on the internet. Until next time.
Additional Resources, and Credible Organizations and Websites for Those Struggling with Alcohol + Other Substance Use Disorders:
You may experience increased stress during this pandemic. Fear and anxiety can be overwhelming and cause strong emotions.
Get immediate help in a crisis.
Call 911.
Disaster Distress Helpline: call or text 1-800-985-5990 (press 2 for Spanish).
National Suicide Prevention: 1-800-273-TALK (8255) for English or 1-888-628-9454 for Spanish
Resources for Family Members + Loved Ones of a Person With Substance Use Disorders:
Resources for Addiction Professionals:
Native-Specific Organizations
Indian Health Service Alcohol and Substance Abuse Program
Strives to reduce alcohol and substance use through treatment and rehabilitation services in tribal communities and urban settings.
Indian Health Service Youth Regional Treatment Centers
Address substance use issues among AI/AN youth through 10 youth treatment centers across the nation.
National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) American Indian/Alaska Native Coordinating Committee
Promotes AI/AN research, works with tribal communities to identify research gaps, and provides technical assistance and funding for AI/AN researchers.
Office of National Drug Control Policy: Collaborating with Native Americans and Alaska Natives
Offers resources and programs, such as the Anti-Meth Campaign, tailored to Native communities. It also addresses drug trafficking.
Other Substance Use Disorder Organizations, Campaigns + Programs
National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
Leads a national effort to address alcohol-related issues.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Prevents excessive alcohol use and its impact in states and communities through public health surveillance, partnerships, and applied research for translation into public health practice.
Hazelden Betty Ford Virtual Outpatient Programs
Community Solutions delivered virtually, Hazelden Betty Ford's RecoveryGo online solutions bring outpatient addiction and mental health care, recovery support resources, family services, and community solutions directly to you.
I Strengthen My Nation Campaign
Empowers youth to resist substance use.
The Phoenix | Together We Rise.
Since 2006, the Phoenix has helped more than 42,000 people across America rise above addiction and harness the power of self-transformation
Addiction Recovery Articles + Podcasts
A podcast about all variations of sobriety, addiction, and recovery as they intersect with the outdoor industry and community.
Let's Talk Addiction & Recovery
Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation Presents Let's Talk Addiction and Recovery
Understanding addiction from a research and treatment perspective.