Episode 42: Something’s Gotta Give
Meeting people where they’re at will sometimes require the foresight that there’s a lot more going on beneath the surface than we present. There’s a lot of work and grind, and it’s not always what we think it is. For some, it can be an everyday battle just to wake up and get out of bed.
The world of adaptive sports is changing, and quickly. Ronnie’s disability hasn’t held him back, but social stigmas that are still caught behind in outdated narratives can. And that’s where change comes. It takes a community, and Ronnie asks himself every day how he can make a difference. The answer is simple—one at a time.
Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates of Tennessee
For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoor, Ocún, and the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA).
Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.
Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.
Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
(KATHY KARLO): This podcast is presented by Patagonia. Not bound by convention, Patagonia’s in business to save our home planet.
- This podcast is sponsored by deuter, one of the leading backpack brands that will help you hit the trails with confidence and comfort, but most importantly–your snacks.
deuter has a history of first ascents and alpine roots. Their head of product development even climbed Everest once, in jeans (hashtag not fake news.) deuter is known for fit, comfort, and ventilation. Founded in 1898, deuter believes in good fitting backpacks, so you can focus on way cooler things like puppies, pocket bacon, and gettin’ sendy, whether at the crag or in the alpine.
(FEMALE VOICE): Today we’re going to talk about “allez”. “Allez” means “come on!” in a way, or to encourage. Ok! We are done with the simple and normal uses of “allez”, now let’s cut to the chase:
(KATHY KARLO): Allez Outdoor Personal Care products are made by climbers for those who love the outdoors. Their rich and repairing ingredients for their skincare collection are inspired by desert landscapes, and their simple and recyclable packaging makes them eco-sustainable. Allez commits to protecting the open spaces that we love by partnering with the Access Fund and 1% for the Planet. That’s Allez Outdoor: “A-L-L-E-Z”). Allez Outdoor—made by climbers, for those who love the outdoors.
- This podcast gets support from Gnarly Nutrition, one of the leading protein supplements that tastes “whey” better than they need to, because they use quality natural ingredients. So, whether you’re a working mom who runs circles around your kids on weekends or an unprofessional climber trying to send that 5.13 in the gym, Gnarly Nutrition has all of your recovery needs.
The only question you need to ask yourself is: Are you a sucker for anything that tastes like chocolate ice cream? (Yeah, me neither.) Gnarly Nutrition is designed to enhance your progress—and taste like a milkshake, without all the crap.
(MALE VOICE): Ocún?
(bell dinging)
(FEMALE VOICE): No.
(MALE VOICE #2): Ocún?
(MALE VOICE #3): Nope.
(MALE VOICE #4): Ocún?
(MALE VOICE #3): Really?
(FEMALE VOICE #2): Ocún?
(NON-GENDERED VOICE): No!
(KK): Who is Ocún? More than prolific crack climbing gloves, Ocún has been making innovative gear engineered for climbing to improve your performance since 1998. Their climbing shoe designs are all original, developed and manufactured in Czech Republic and one hundred percent gender neutral. Beyond their sticky rubber, Ocún is renowned for their hardware, harnesses, and the biggest lightest crash pad on the market. Find your new favorite climbing shoes and accessories at Backcountry, Moosejaw, Camp Saver, and Amazon.
- This podcast is sponsored by the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance. Because you listen to this show, we know that responsible recreation is important to all of you.
Increasing visitation and rapid expansion of human-powered recreation has adverse impact to the delicate desert ecosystem. What climbers and other recreationists need are more thoughtful land management plans, which can help minimize the impact of camping and recreating in fragile desert environments.
Help protect the places you love to climb by asking the Bureau of Land Management to better manage recreation. Visit suwa.org/recreation (that’s S-U-W-A) or text UTAH R-E-C to 52886 to get started and protect wild Utah.
(KK): The Adaptive Climber’s Festival returns to the Red River Gorge after a two-year hiatus due to Covid. This October 14th through 16th, join the adaptive community for their annual multi-day event, focused on providing space for climbers with disabilities to climb, learn, and connect.
(ANDREW CHAO): Random shit that—
(RONNIE DICKSON): Yeah, just like all the organizational shit that you can’t do during…
(trails off)
(KK): Located in the southeastern corner of Tennessee, just two hours from Atlanta, Knoxville, Nashville, and Birmingham, Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates of Tennessee (POA) is a worldwide leader in revolutionary and custom prosthetics.
And in 2019, I had the pleasure of showing up while Ronnie was only three weeks settled into the new office. That’s fun! And not disruptive or chaotic at all.
(papers shuffling)
(AC): So, on Friday we have Carlos coming in for a soccer fitting. Then, we have Walter Carter coming in—
(RD): Yep. That’s fine.
(AC): Do you want me to see if they want to try and get those health-style PT patients in for a shadow that day?
(RD): Uh, sure.
(KK): Because the fit of a prosthetic or orthotic device has a huge impact on quality of life, POA is most famously known for its custom approach, patient-first attitude, and getting access to innovative quality care to those who need it most.
With the rise of parasports—not just climbing, but running, cycling, and so much more—globally, we have a greater awareness of those with physical disability. The role of these sports and athletes inspire able-bodied communities to change the way we regard disabilities, and what those who have them can accomplish.
The prevailing belief in times past was a medical one, based on fear of difference and a perceived need to be “normal”, but that’s changed. Those with disabilities are far more restricted by barriers placed by society than an impairment, but with stories like Ronnie, Jack, Brittany, and countless others we’ve had on the pod, a shift in perspective has led more people to understanding that all bodies have the right to access and participate in all arenas of life—including sport.
Ronnie and the entire POA team are paving the path for more adaptive athletes to run, bike, bound, and blaze down. When it comes to prosthetics, this small but mighty team is helping thousands of people shatter boundaries. And it’s all happening here in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
(RD): Oh, man. Yeah. So, we’ve been in Chattanooga for three weeks now. It’s been a total whirlwind, but kinda the fruition of a really big, long-term dream and goal for me and something that I’m really deeply rooted in and have a really huge connection to.
So, to be able to finally be at the point in my career where I can take this next step, open up my own prosthetics clinic that I’m in charge of, in a place that I’ve always dreamed of being—you know, it’s really, really cool.
And you meet a lot of really amazing people through the community and I’ve been able to kind of bridge everything together where I’ve got one of my best friends, Andrew Chao, working with me. And we’ve been involved in the adaptive climbing stuff for so long. And then, our other two employees, Tyler Lambright and Rob Miller are both really dedicated climbers.
So, it’s kind of cool to bring together people that have a similar vision and mission for what we’re looking to do with the business, but that also—that we share something so deeply rooted at the same time, as well. You know, helping people and then, also just the simple act of climbing rocks which, you know, means so much and means so little, all at the same time.
(ALEX HONNOLD) (to himself): Ok, I’m Alex Honnold. You’re listening to the love of climbing podcast. It’s a funny, sad, somewhat uncomfortable podcast—
(louder)
I was like, “Wow, this is the opposite of my podcast. But, you know, here we go!”
(laughs)
(upbeat music)
“I’m Alex Honnold and you’re listening to For the Love of Climbing—”
—is it “to the”? Or “to—“ Do you say “to For the Love of Climbing Podcast”?
“I’m Alex Honnold and you’re listening to For the Love of Climbing Podcast.”
Yeah. Yeah, I see it.
“You’re listening to For the Love of Climbing Podcast. This is not a climbing podcast. Well, sorta. It’s a funny, sad, and somewhat uncomfortable podcast about choosing vulnerability. Here’s the show.”
Easy cheesy!
(KK): There are a lot of things about Ronnie Dickson that make him so unique. Ronnie’s an above-the-knee amputee, but there are a lot of above-the-knee amputees.
Maybe it’s the fact that he can fall asleep faster than anybody I’ve ever seen at the crag—not an exaggeration, or that he’s a climber hailing from the sunshine state, most famous for its subtropical climate, abundance of sunny weather, beaches, and lack of abundance of mountains.
(RD): No rocks to climb at all and raised there my whole life. So, I grew up in Central Florida, went to school over in the Tampa Bay Area, and then, just worked the last nine, ten years of my career over in Orlando, Florida. And so, that’s kind of why being in Chattanooga is so significant.
Because for the longest part of my climbing career, I was so far away from the thing that I loved the most, but you figure out ways to be creative and make it happen. I definitely didn’t have one of those jobs where you could be gone and freewheeling all the time and be able to freelance.
Thankfully, my last employees were really flexible and kind of given me the space and the time that I needed to grow my climbing career and to be on four World Championship teams and to travel around and do some of those basic things that you need to be able to do to grow as a climber.
Super fortunate for that. I don’t know, otherwise, how I would have made it in Florida.
(laughs)
That’s for sure. You know, and the gym is cool and everything. I could just never find a way to try hard in the gym. You know, it’s like I would almost get fixated on a route or a boulder, and that’s what would carry me through a three to four-month period of my life. And it’s weird now—the way that I approach it versus how I did then. But—
(pauses)
—it almost had to be an obsession-like thing, because that was what would keep me—almost like, alive inside. Because otherwise, yeah. Florida is a killer for a climber—that’s for sure. And the gym climbing helps you maintain your form and your physique, but it never nourished me or—
(KK): The soul, the psyche.
(RD): Yeah! My soul, my psyche—it just never did it for me. And the only reason I gym climb is so I can go climb outside—not the other way around. I don’t know that—if gym climbing was the end all, be all, I don’t know that I would be a climber. I’ve got to have something outside and a little bit more connected to something that’s real.
(KK): Ok, y’all—million dollar question: where is Ronnie’s leg? Because be honest, some of you were probably wondering.
(RD): I had had my leg amputated on June twenty-ninth, 2005 after a longstanding battle with a congenital deformity that left my leg deformed and kind of in a poorly useable state.
(KK): Ronnie was diagnosed with a congenital deformity called Trevor’s disease when he was five, and what that meant was there was a deficiency in the growth plates in his left knee and ankle, causing them to grow slower than the ones in the right.
This meant years of adapting, even before amputation. I mean, adolescent growth spurts are no joke. But when Ronnie made the decision to leave his left leg and old life behind at the age of nineteen, that’s when things changed.
(RD): And I spent a couple of years just getting active again. I definitely had a really great support system and was just getting back into working out and just seeing the things that I could do and kind of re-testing what this new life was gonna be like.
And I was at my prosthetist’s office at the time, so the person who made my legs, and I was flipping through a magazine and I found an ad for an event called the “Extremity Games”. And what that was was—it was an adaptive sporting competition for people living with limb loss or limb difference. It was happening just a couple of hours from Tampa, over in Orlando.
And out of all the events that were listed there—kayaking, BMX bike riding, skateboarding—rock climbing seemed like the coolest to me. I’d never considered it before, but I googled “rock climbing” in Tampa and I went with my roommates that Friday and I just absolutely fell in love with it.
I definitely wasn’t naturally good or talented. I don’t think most people are. But I made it to the top of the wall on a few of the easier graded climbs and just knew that it was something that I wanted to continue trying and pursuing, and then, competed only six months after that. And I met so many people that were maybe having a similar situation as myself.
I mean, the adaptive scene was really small then. I mean, these competitions—I think that one drew fifteen people; three for the bouldering and maybe another ten to twelve for the rope climbing. And just for the audience’s perspective, this last National Championships that we had last year in Columbus, Ohio—we had eighty-eight athletes. And so, it’s grown leaps and bounds.
And even the first team I took to World Championships—that would have been in 2014—we had twenty athletes participate with us. So, things grew pretty quickly after that. And a lot of dedicated volunteers and other figures in the community were able to take something that really wasn’t a thing and make it a thing. A part of it was just being in the right place at the right time, and just having a really big passion for it.
And it was funny enough—that summer right before the competition, I did a study abroad in Italy, over in Florence. And because I knew I was training for this competition, I found a local climbing gym, ended up having to figure out how to take the local bus forty-five to fifty minutes outside of town to make it there. And I got lucky enough that the owner was Argentinian and spoke Spanish, which I speak Spanish from my mom’s side. She’s from Venezuela.
I ended up striking up a friendship with him, was able to make it over there between my schedule of classes and traveling—twice a week. And then, the very last weekend that I was there after this six-week study abroad, we went climbing outside—for the very first time.
And, for the most part, minus this guy who spoke Spanish, I couldn’t really communicate with anybody else in the group ‘cause they all spoke Italian. But it was really cool to get to share this experience in a couple different spots—one bouldering spot, one sport climbing spot that I couldn’t tell you the names of if I ever tried.
I got to go outside and see a completely different perspective of the world, essentially, and of this new sport that was very new to me at the time. And I just—that was it.
(KK): Italy was yet another chapter, a turning point, that changed the lens that Ronnie would look at the world through forever. This was where it all started, and Ronnie? He hit the ground running, so to speak.
(RD): Most recently, when I was working on doing my first 5.13, I literally saw a weather window and I woke up in Florida at about three a.m., got on the road at four. Got to Alabama after a nine-hour drive, and then, switching into Central Time and went straight to the crag.
I finally got there at about three after I’d unpacked all my stuff and kinda gotten settled a little bit, had some lunch. And then, fired the project by six as it was getting dark, after a few warm-up goes and everything like that. And actually, within that month, I sent two more 5.13s—another 13a and then a 13b.
And it was kind of like the culmination of a whole season or longer portion of climbing for me where I finally felt like I integrated as a sport climber. ‘Cause I had spent the first eight, nine years of my climbing career almost exclusively bouldering with some sport climbing mixed in for competitions and stuff like that.
But I would have never, ever called myself a sport climber. You know, I was always just getting by, supremely pumped the whole time. But then, finally, working with Eric Hörst and I found some treadmill protocols that really started to just pay the dividends and manage routes and recover on routes and things like that.
It totally changed the game because now, instead of trying something and just falling off at the same spot, it’s almost like, for a brief period of time I felt like the master of my domain where I could run through the moves on something one time, and I could almost fire anything within the level that I was capable of doing second go.
From that background of bouldering really hard for so long and just being pretty comfortable with hard moves, but now, finally being comfortable with pump management and being able to read a section and be like, “Ok. When I get here, I’m gonna have x amount left in the tank. A little bit of shaking and these tactics will get me through the next part,”
And finally just kind of having a method to the madness, as opposed to just going through it. And—
(briefly pauses)
—it was almost a two-way street where I knew so much more about it. But it’s also kind of right at the point where I’d almost let go of so many things to where I was just climbing to climb, and it was just more about movement and going through it than it was about anything else.
So, it became a lot more simple. And even though I’m maybe describing it in a more complex manner, it wasn’t like that at all. It just became smoother. So, the 5.13 was kinda the culmination of a whole six to eight-month period where I was really broaching to see what the limit of sport climbing was for me, at that time.
And then, that led quickly into my second 13 and then, my 13b. The 13b was right around where that season ended and it was a really good feeling to put so much work into something and then, feel it all come together in a really extended, kind of prolonged flow state.
(KK): Meeting people where they’re at will sometimes require the foresight that there’s a lot more going on beneath the surface than we present. Like many successful people climbing elite grades, Ronnie hustled to get to that point, but it’s not always what we think it is.
And I think there is an interesting parallel to be drawn here, between those with more obvious physical impairments, like an above-the-knee amputee, versus those with a less visible disability.
Spinal cord injury, traumatic brain injury, Lyme, chronic pain—the list could go on. It’s not too far of a stretch to include things like autism spectrum disorder, depression, and learning and thinking differences, such as ADHD.
Because of their hidden nature, the majority of these conditions will show no obvious sign or symptom to an outside observer. The way a person looks doesn’t always reflect how they feel physically, disability or not. For some, it can be an everyday battle just to wake up and get out of bed.
(RD): Oh, man. Yeah. I did the drive by myself—only had one stop. So, that was probably my longest day and kind of the culmination of all of that obsession. And that was right around the time where I was starting to see that I had other opportunities in front of me and that I wasn’t gonna be in Florida for the long term. And, oh yeah. The down that came after that was super hard.
But you hustle and you work really hard. You know, I can remember on almost a weekly basis—I mean, like I said, my previous employers really enabled me and really gave me opportunities that I wouldn’t have been able to get from anybody else. So, I had a climbing wall at work and I had a treadwall at work and a couple hangboards set up in my office.
But we would start at eight-thirty—
(iPhone alarm rings)
—you know, so I’d probably wake up at my house at five, get to the office at six, session from six to eight, and then be ready to work at eight-thirty. So, that was part of what made me as successful of a climber as I was, for sure. It was just that part that people don’t see.
You see the cool Instagram photo and you see all the sending, and I actually have a really hard time opening up in those platforms. But, you work your ass off. But, at the same time too, you reap the benefit from it, and so, it’s a two-way street.
(KK): We’re gonna take a short break—so don’t go anywhere. Or…we’re a podcast. You can take us everywhere.
- The scale of climate change can make an individual feel hopelessly small, and Molly Kawahata knows this feeling well. As a former climate advisor to the Obama White House and an alpine climber with dreams of big summits, Molly dedicated her life to taking on seemingly insurmountable challenges. But it’s her personal struggle with mental health that gives her a profound understanding of how to harness the power of the mind to create change.
“The Scale of Hope” follows Molly as she prepares for an expedition in the Alaska Range while working to create a new climate narrative that centers her favorite question—What can I do to help? It’s a story about struggle, hope, and what it will take to solve the greatest issue of our time.
Go to Patagonia.com/climbing, or visit the Patagonia YouTube channel to watch “The Scale of Hope”, streaming now.
(RD): Starting at a later age of nineteen and trying to figure out where these limits are after I’ve lost my leg and everything like that. I didn’t climb before when I had had my leg. But starting something new and just seeing where I could take this line to—there was always some sort of goal or some sort of project in mind, whereas now, it’s more about, I do it because it makes me feel good.
And I think there was definitely a time in my early climbing career where I was just simply too young to understand why certain people could do things that I couldn’t do, even though I was maybe physically stronger. And then, finally, you start to understand movement better and you pay just a little bit more attention and you’re like, “Oh, ok. That makes sense now,” after seeing it enough.
But you just keep on trying to find ways to be creative and to invent and, you know, the thing I always liked about climbing is everybody has to learn how their own body climbs. It doesn’t matter whether you’re able-bodied or not, and we all go through that same process. We all have an adaptation period.
So, I just started to see the things that I was good at, started to realize what my limitations were, started to realize maybe what limitations were made up by my mind, maybe? Like, I can’t do this because I’m making up an excuse for it, whereas actually assigning validity to others.
Like, “Oh, wow. Because of the way this move is set up, my time is probably better invested elsewhere.” Because I just simply have a limitation—is it worth maybe sacrificing my experience of other things to spend all this time on this? And that just takes having a really honest conversation with yourself of: “Which one is it?”
And sometimes, the answer’s gray. But most of the time, it’s one or the other. It’s, “Wow, this just really isn’t realistic for me.” Or if you’re really that truly psyched about it—if there’s some inspirational quality, whether it’s the rock quality or whether it’s the length or the appearance of the route, it just looks sick and you wanna climb it—then well, that’s when you throw everything out the window and you figure out a way.
And then, maybe too, ultimately at some point, just learning how to be ok with yourself wherever you’re at. And maybe if you had a bad day at the crag or at the gym or if something didn’t go the way you envisioned, maybe just not being so judgmental on how that is and beating yourself up because of it.
Now as a climber, I’m definitely—
(laughs)
—a lot more easygoing and whatnot, whereas the old me was just trying to figure out a way to get it done all the time and wasn’t as forgiving.
(KK): Mm-hm.
(RD): And now, I do it just at whatever level I’m feeling on any given day. There’s still days when I wanna go really hard and other days where I’m climbing V1, but still just trying to make that be as smooth and as clean and actually master the craft, so that when I am forty and when I am fifty, I can actually still be a better climber, even though I’m maybe not half as strong and still taking other people with disabilities out climbing and opening up that world for people that haven’t had those experiences because they were so impactful for me that that’s still my favorite thing that I love to do—taking the thing that I love most in the world and sharing it with somebody else.
(KK): Growing older is inevitable and just another process of lifelong adaptation. For some, it can be daunting. Especially as climbers who’ve spent so much time in pursuit of an athletic objective.
Veteran climbers understand from personal experience things like stamina or strength ebb and flow. Those who are in it for the long haul know that love evolves—that giving back to the community only deepens gratitude, and the power of joy that comes with it.
(RD): I think you just have to have a really deep appreciation for things at every stage in the game and almost approach things with that same kind of childlike approach that comes along when you experience something for the first time. We get so desensitized to stuff after we do it for so long. But, these days—especially being in Chattanooga, now—it’s definitely rekindled my climbing.
You know, the beginning there’s always something special about it and sometimes, you can recapture it and other times, you can’t. But I like to think that—
(pauses)
—you can keep that all the time.
(KK): Yeah.
(RD): You know, and you should. Because if not, you maybe should re-evaluate why. And I think, coming from Florida had a really big part to do with that too, because every time I was out, I was just so happy to be there. And you try your best on any given day and if it was raining or if it was shitty, that’s just how it went.
You know, I’ve always told people, “A bad day outside is better than your best day in the city.” Yeah, sometimes they don’t go so great, but it’s still better than the alternative.
(KK): A congenital skeletal abnormality is present at birth. Ronnie lived his entire childhood through adolescent years adapting to the limb deformity, but it never kept him down for long. And the alternative—limited walking and running capability and pain caused by most physical activity, shouldn’t have to be a forever option—not for Ronnie, not for anyone.
(RD): So, fast forward to when I was ten. I had to spend a year in the hospital having a leg-lengthening procedure done and they were able to lengthen it six inches, and that got things caught up for a little while.
You know, I was having this conversation with somebody earlier today, but I just had such a great family and support system that I just remember the good parts. Like, being at the Shriner’s Kids Hospital and being surrounded by friends all the time and getting to play video games and things like that. Sure, there were really shitty parts to it that I remember, but really, when I think about it, my immediate snapshot picture isn’t the bad.
You know, and it’s funny because you actually don’t have control over what you remember. You remember something and typically, that presents itself with an image or with a feeling. And my feeling isn’t negative, surprisingly at all. And I don’t know that that’s something I can consciously control or not.
But thankfully, that wasn’t super traumatic—
(laughs)
—or anything like that. And I was on the varsity soccer team and I would get home from practice at night and I finally got to the point where my mobility was so challenged that I wouldn’t be able to walk again until the next day going to school ‘cause I was in so much pain.
And that’s kinda where I started to have this realization—like, “You can only do this for so long.” Something’s gotta give. So, ultimately, came up with this plan since there wasn’t anything there that was normal or that they could fix, to have my leg amputated above the knee right after my high school graduation, and that that would open up a whole new world of possibilities for me.
Like, I didn’t know what those were at the time. You know, the internet was a thing. Like, you did instant messaging with friends and stuff like that. But I didn’t obsessively look up any of this stuff. I kind of just went on faith that I just knew it would be better.
But the alternative wasn’t very good—let’s just put it that way. So, it was pretty easy.
(laughs)
After I had my leg amputated, you know, the short form is that I had a few prosthetic legs. They were still better than my actual leg that I had that was causing me a lot of pain, but I still wasn’t reaching the level that I wanted to reach. I was having some discomfort, I would open up sores on my leg every time that I tried to be really active. And that’s your quality of life at the end of the day, and I wasn’t gonna settle until I had the quality of life I knew I could have.
So, I ended up meeting this guy by the name of Stan Patterson, who made me this prosthetic leg that was phenomenal. It allowed me to compete in my first triathlon. It allowed me to run the distance of my choosing without any pain. It allowed me to climb without my leg falling off.
And I was going to school for that at the time and took my first job with him in Orlando, and the philosophy and our way of treating patients was really so impactful—not just for me, but that held true across the board for lots of other people, as well.
So, I basically just devoted the last ten years of my life to learning that trade in that very specific way where we’re able to really pay attention to the details and make prosthetic legs that are really high quality. We ended up seeing clients that traveled from all across the United States, all across the world for our services because they were better than maybe what they were able to get locally or regionally.
So, that put me in a really, really good position to be able to open this clinic with all of that knowledge and the base of being able to help so many different people. That’s the only reason I stayed in Florida—was because I knew that’s what I wanted to do with my life, and I knew the only way to get from A to B and to be able to help people to the maximum of my capacity was to become an expert at that.
(KK): And that’s exactly what happened. Ronnie moved to Chattanooga and realized a dream by opening up Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates of Tennessee, a sister company of Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates in Orlando, Florida.
(RD): So, I’ve still got a really great relationship with our home branch, let’s say, in Orlando, Florida and those guys are amazing. And we’re really well-positioned to just be here as part of this new community and help anybody who needs it.
Part of what we want to bring into is, we wanna bring who we are into the space, you know? And we keep it pretty low-key. So, we take people out in situations that challenge them, whether that’s hiking or maybe trying climbing for the first time. But just helping people grow along with us and find their challenges and pass their barriers in the same way that a lot of people helped me.
I like to have the stuff in my life really deeply interconnected. It’s not like I have my work, then my family, and then, my friends. The way that I see it is—it’s all one unit and when you can do that, everything kind of works together in harmony.
The office setup is—we can share that experience with clients and with our patients and the people we take care of. And, at the same time, relive a lot of our experiences that we really had such a good time with that we wanna share that with people—and just, hopefully, have it impact their lives the way that it impacted ours.
And some people are really mobility-challenged, for one reason or another, and maybe that’s an opportunity that will never, ever be extended to them. But when they come into this space, I want them to feel like they could almost vicariously experience some of the things that we’ve experienced.
So, Andrew’s a really talented photographer. You know, having some of his outdoor photography on the wall and being able to share those moments with them and community events that we’ve done with people and saying, “Oh, hey—this is this and this person.”
And almost using all of these different things and these different props is a way to recount our story with them and then, bring them along on this journey with us. So, that if nothing else in what could be a difficult existence, just having us be the bright spot in their day.
(KK): Ronnie and his team at Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates of Tennessee are serving folks in Chattanooga and see patients as far as Atlanta, Birmingham, Nashville, Knoxville, and Western Carolina. The difference of a pain-free life and giving patients the freedom to walk, run, and climb is what makes their clinic so special.
Climbing is where Ronnie rekindled a passion for having something he could wake up and be excited about. He’s since been able to climb mountains, complete a triathlon, ride a bike, run, travel the world—he’s a three-time National Paraclimbing Champion in the Male Leg Amputee Division, sent V10 and multiple 5.13s, was a founding member of the U.S. paraclimbing program, and has developed and executed programming such as Adaptive Climbing Group, a non-profit organization that serves the New York City, Boston, Chicago areas, and beyond.
All while helping to support thousands with disabilities to find the tools to accomplish big goals. The world of adaptive sports is changing, and quickly. Ronnie’s disability hasn’t held him back, but social stigmas that are still caught behind in outdated narratives can. And that’s where change comes. It takes a community.
(RD): So, our website is www.poatn.com. So, we’re Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates of Tennessee. Our Instagram, handle is @poa_tn and on Facebook, we’re POATN. And if you just generically google “Ronnie Dickson”, we’ve gotten to do lots of really cool projects with Evolv, so, like—me sending my first V10 boulder and some other miscellaneous YouTube videos. We’ve done Adaptive Climbing clinics in JTree that Sanuk did a video on and Louder Than 11 has a couple of videos out there.
So, yeah. It’s kinda cool to go back and kinda see some of the stuff that we’ve done and just know that it’s not necessarily about making your future better ‘cause I almost had this thought the other day. It’s like, “Wow. I literally did so much in the first ten years. I don’t really know how I could top this.”
And it’s not so much about topping it, as much as it is just staying true with the original intention and trying to create things that are impactful for people and that’s really all you can ask for. Whether it’s better or worse or the same, you know, it’s not my position to judge.
(KK): Or you could just—retire early.
(RD): Yeah!
(laughs)
(KK): (laughs)
(RD): So, this is Andrew Chao. On his business card here at the office, he is a “taco assassin”. We’ve successfully eaten tacos almost every night since we’ve been here.
(AC): There’s the one place right by our house since we don’t have a kitchen, called Taco Town—really good.
(RD): Taco Town’s good. Been getting these cactus tacos.
(KK): Ooh, are we talking dollar twenty-five tacos?
(RD): Like, right around there. It’s pretty sick. So, Andrew has successfully spotted, supported, almost gotten kicked in the face by my prosthesis multiple times while I come flying off of boulder problems. He has potentially just left me hanging on routes for hours on end, just mocking me from the ground and doing all those really great things that a climbing partner should.
(AL STONE): Hi, For the Love of Climbing community. I’m Al Stone and I’m an adaptive climber. In January 2020, I was rock climbing solo at my local rock climbing gym and definitely will preface this story with that I was at the gym angry at my partner at the time, specifically, and just sort of life changes in general.
And I was going in between auto belay and bouldering. It was a very busy night at the gym. I thought I was clipped into the auto belay, made it to the top of a pretty difficult route, and I was leaning back to go down on the auto belay and my life changed instantly. I suffered a burst fracture on my T12 vertebrae and I broke my talus bone in my left foot.
So, my 2020 started off to a rough start right before Covid shut down. So, I was definitely new to climbing before my accident and I was very shy and hesitant to ask for a belay. And, for now, I’m a little over two and a half years post-accident and I’ve really been wanting to get back into climbing.
But I think my friend circle here—I don’t know if it’s the combination of they don’t think I wanna climb because of my accident, or they already all have climbing partners. And oftentimes, people will invite someone right in front of me and pretend as if I’m a ghost, and I’m not even invited or included. And it’s just one of those sports that you need—
(laughs)
—a community of people to climb with. And unfortunately, it’s one of those sports where, obviously, an advanced climber is not gonna wanna necessarily go out with a novice. They wanna go with someone that they trust—which I get. But then, where is the threshold of new beginner climbers wanting to get involved and wanting to learn?
I still consider myself an adaptive climber, but I wish that there were more resources for people like me. Luckily, in the San Luis Valley where I live, there is an avid climbing community and we have some really gem spots outside, but we don’t really have an adaptive climbing community.
And I came back to this community hoping for more acceptance, and I think it boils down to a judgement call on my ability that others are making for me, instead of me making that judgement call.
So, if you hear any of this, I just hope that you get across that adaptive climbers are out there and they might look like people with nothing wrong with them, but there could be an underlying condition or injury that’s just not visible to you.
And regardless of visibility or not, this community is here and we’re wanting to be a part of the greater climbing community. Thanks—for listening.
(COLIN): Hi, I’m Colin and I’m an adaptive climber based in Atlanta, Georgia.
(piano fades)
(upbeat music)
(SHANE): Hi, this is Shane and I am an adaptive climber.
(MIRANDA): Hey. My name is Miranda Scott and I’m an adaptive climber.
(JEANTIQUE): My name is Jeantique and I’m a paraclimber from London, England, where we call “adaptive climbing” “paraclimbing”.
(SARAH B): I’m Sarah Belanger and I’m an adaptive climber.
(LAUREN): My name is Lauren Rouse and I’m an adaptive climber.
(MELISSA): My name is Melissa Ruiz and I’m an adaptive climber.
(JAMES): My name is James Rudge and I’m an adaptive climber!
(ANH): My name is Anh. I’m from Chicago, and I am an adaptive climber.
(ELIANA): My name Eliana and I’m a paraclimber.
(JOHN): My name is John and I’m an adaptive climber.
(SARAH L): My name is Sarah Larcombe from Melbourne Australia, and I’m an adaptive climber.
(CAROLINE): My name is Caroline Winstel and I’m an adaptive climber.
(SARAH B): My name is Sarah Belanger and I’m a climber.
(JEANTIQUE): My name is Jeantique and I’m a climber.
(JAMES): My name is James and I am a climber!
(ELIANA): My name is Eliana and I’m a climber.
(JOHN): My name is John and I am a climber.
(ANH): My name is Anh—
(SARAH B): I am a climber.
(ANH): —and I’m a climber.
(JOHN): I am a climber.
(MALE VOCALIST):
Yeah we’re lemonade
La la la la la la lemonade
We can lay here for the weekend
We can bath in Sunday dreaming
Here to stay inside the feeling
He can lay here for the weekend
We can bath in Sunday dreaming
Here to stay inside the feeling
Here to stay
(TONI WALSH): My name is Toni. I am an adaptive climber. So, I’ve got Ehlers-Danlos syndrome which is a connective tissue disorder and it makes climbing a little bit tough, but I still have found a lotta success with being patient and getting super creative.
When I was diagnosed, I was told that there was no future for me and I gave climbing a shot and it actually gave me a way better quality of living. Maybe on the off chance that I could put my voice out there and maybe help some other fellow Ehlers-Danlos-ers who haven’t heard any success stories—maybe get them to feel a little bit more confident and that it’s—it’s not all over.
(laughs)
(KK): You’re listening to For the Love of Climbing Podcast. A huge thank you to deuter, one of the leading backpack brands that will help you hit the trails with confidence and comfort. And a big thank you to Gnarly Nutrition for supporting this podcast and the messages that we share. Gnarly Nutrition supports a community of vulnerability and equality—and tastes like a milkshake, without all the crap. A big shout out to Allez Outdoor for supporting the Access Fund and 1% for the Planet. And to Ocún—innovative gear engineered for climbing to improve your performance.
And thanks to Patagonia. Not bound by convention, Patagonia is in business to save our home planet. Support companies who support this podcast—we couldn’t do it without them. If you liked what you heard, you can leave a review on iTunes or give us a like—like all good things, you can find us on the internet.